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Steve Bannon, US President Donald Trump’s former chief strategist, on Wednesday said that before Elon Musk pulls back from his work with the Department of Government Efficiency, he needs to make clear what fraud and waste in the federal government has been uncovered.
“We need to have a very specific accounting of what he found, as far as fraud goes and waste, and I mean details,” said Bannon. “None of this makes sense.”
Bannon also said he wants a letter of certification showing that no one has taken any data from the Trump administration or government, to which Semafor’s editor-in-chief Ben Smith asked, “Sounds like you don’t trust [Musk] not to take data?”
“Trust, but verify,” Bannon responded.
While Bannon has supported DOGE’s efforts, he has called Musk “evil,” in an escalating clash with the tech billionaire. Bannon said Wednesday that DOGE was “a blunt-force instrument” that was needed to gut government waste, but that the cuts made to the federal government so far are only “programmatic,” noting that DOGE hasn’t turned up much from the Pentagon.
The Pentagon and other facets of the federal government’s discretionary spending are where Bannon wants to see budget cuts to pay for tax cuts.
“Unless you do that, the math doesn’t work out,” Bannon said, noting that the US has added $1.3 trillion to the federal deficit so far this year. “The current system we have is not sustainable. It’s just not.”
Bannon, a vocal advocate of raising taxes on millionaires, also urged the Trump administration “to do what they’re talking about,” referring to recent reports that the president’s inner circle is considering this.
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Bannon also doubled down on his criticism of Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, saying it would be an “unmitigated disaster” if he had been given the role of the Treasury secretary.
“This is about people putting their own interests first, like Elon,” Bannon said.
While US tariffs have sent financial markets into turmoil and weakened the outlook for global economic growth, Bannon expressed confidence that the US will come out on top in its escalating trade war with China: “It’s a battle between two systems. If you think their system’s going to win, you’re kidding yourself. We’re gonna win this.”
Commenting on populist nationalists, Bannon warned the alternative was someone like Luigi Mangione, the man charged with killing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson last year.
“He’s treated like Robin Hood,” Bannon said. “That should scare you to the marrow of your bones, because that’s the alternative if the system keeps going like it is. The populists nationalists offer something you’re not gonna love, but you’ll be able to live with.”
The Semafor View
Countries are reassessing how much they spend on defense and security in a world where the post-World War 2 order seems increasingly fractured. As governments struggle to boost defense budgets, the role of private companies is also in focus. The public and private approach to technical innovation could be the defining factor in any future conflicts.