Get out of their bubbles, or harden them? Newsom, Democrats debate their media future

One of the great challenges of hosting a show or podcast (ask me!) is booking a good guest every week. That turns out to be true even when you’re the governor of California.

“We’ve reached out to a ton of people. I got ghosted on a few,” Newsom told Semafor in an interview last week. “But I’m not giving up on them yet.”

In a less media-saturated age, the governor of the most economically important state in the country might have considered himself above texting out talk show invitations. Now, that’s just another part of the governing process.

After he had New York Times columnist and podcaster Ezra Klein on his show to discuss where progressive governance had fallen short in housing and infrastructure, several housing bills were introduced into the California legislature. In a press conference last week, California state Rep. Buffy Wicks singled out Newsom’s episode with Klein as a sign that the governor supported a recent series of bills she and other lawmakers had introduced to fast-track housing construction.

The California governor has long been one of the more innovative national Democratic figures when it comes to political media, of which he is both a subject and a voracious consumer. He briefly hosted a show on Current TV, voluntarily participated in his own presidential undercard debate on Fox News with Florida Gov. Ron Desantis, and was an early adopter of Trump’s social media platform, Truth Social, to get out Democrats’ message.

Newsom began considering hosting a political podcast after the election. He was alarmed by viral charts showing podcasts with a rightward tilt were far outpacing podcasts that were coded as “blue.” So the governor started discussing with iHeartMedia what it would look like to launch a political show of his own.

Newsom told Semafor the goal of the podcast was to better understand why Democrats lost in 2024, demonstrate humility, and “soften the edges of the world that we’re living in, political world, to try to distill a better sense of well-being.”

“It’s just exploring the other side. Why are they kicking our ass?” Newsom said. “Why are these guys so successful? They are. I mean, I’m sorry, Democrats, they are.”

He continued: ”[Conservatives] feel like we talk down to them, that we talk past them,” he said. “It’s the elitism of being so f**king judgmental and being so quick to dismiss people. So what I’m trying to do is acknowledge that criticism. I feel that sometimes, too.”

Some audiences are clearly there for the spectacle. Clips of Newsom’s first episode with Kirk garnered 42 million views on TikTok alone, according to his staff, as well as nearly a million on YouTube. A person familiar with Newsom’s social media stats also told Semafor that compared to his average posts, the audience for the podcast clips have been reaching more men on social media. As of Sunday, Newsom had more than 57,000 YouTube subscribers.

But he’s also discovered that media that promotes understanding of political opponents isn’t exactly popular on the left right now. This Is Gavin Newsom has not been well-received among many Democrats. Left-leaning media outlets have ripped the governor for making the first guests on his show right-wing stars like Kirk and Steve Bannon, and failing to push back against them on various GOP talking points. During an appearance on the podcast earlier this month, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz asked Newsom why he was spending his time chatting it up with conservative pundits.

“These are bad guys, though. These are bad guys,” Walz said. “How do we push some of those guys back under a rock?”

While the governor said that while he felt a lot of critics hadn’t listened to the full episodes, he understood why left-leaning viewers were upset that he didn’t push back harder. He argued that the point of the show was not to debate Republicans; he’d already done that with DeSantis and Fox News host Sean Hannity.

“This was not a debate format, because you get that everywhere else. I don’t add value in that respect,” he said. “I want to have the kind of conversations that I have with these people in private where I’m like, ’You seriously think that’s true? Yeah. Why do you really do that? What the hell are you guys doing? Why are you kicking our ass in this? How did you just win by 2.3 million votes? Man, did that really work? Do you really believe this?”

He continued: “But I get it, you know, if Steve Bannon says, ‘Gavin, I know you disagree with me on the election.’ And instead of me saying, ‘Yes, I do, and now let’s have a conversation about was the election fake,’ which I’ve been talking about for four years — that they’re full of s**t — I let that go, because everyone knows we disagree. But not everybody knows we agree on the oligarchy. We agree on corporate monopolies. We agree on corporate tax cut policy. We agree that Donald Trump’s not doing anything that they promoted him to be doing. I mean that, to me, is a hell of a lot more interesting than, ‘Oh, Steve Bannon is the January 6th guy who said some insensitive things.’ So while I want to improve, I want to iterate, I want to acknowledge the critics. I’m not necessarily agreeing with them.”

“I’m not trying to own the conservatives like these guys try to own the libs. I’m not trying to go in and kick their ass and get a viral moment. I’m not trying to be that guy. I’m deeply mindful, that’s what most of these guys do for a living. I’m not trying to go viral. I’m not trying to break news. I’m not trying to break people’s hearts in my base. I know that I [diverged] from some ideological purity test, which I’ve always verged from all my career. … But I’m just trying to open up a space to have civil dialogues and, to the extent we break down barriers, that’s more important to me.”

Despite some complaints from liberals, Newsom’s podcast has found an audience already. But it pales in comparison to the audience for media raging at Trump and Musk, which has exploded in the months following Trump’s return to office. There’s no better example of this than MeidasTouch, the podcast network that has garnered tens of millions of views and downloads on the back of quick-turn content that relentlessly criticizes Trump and Musk, often suggesting that the administration is teetering on the edge of collapse.

Launched by affable former LA lawyer Ben Meiselas and his two brothers during the pandemic, the MeidasTouch Network has over the last several years built up a loyal following for what it described as its “pro-democracy” content, which largely focuses on Trump’s moral failings, purported violations of laws and political norms and highlights embarrassing missteps by Republicans, as well as fiery moments in which Democrats and others push back against Trump.

Democratic California Sen. Adam Schiff is a fan, Meiselas told me in an interview last month, as is Rep. Robert Garcia, who shouted out the group at a town hall event this weekend. And clearly so were members of the Biden White House: When he left office last year, Biden opted against giving one of his final interviews as president to mainstream media in favor of sitting down with Meiselas. While MeidasTouch had fans among the establishment Democratic crowd, these days its ideological leanings tend not to split along progressive/moderate lines, instead favoring Democrats and left-leaning people willing to fight back hard rhetorically against Trump.

Some of its success rests on claims that are somewhat misleading if not outright dubious. In an email to supporters, Meiselas wrote that he had sources telling him Fox News management is “constantly getting berated by Rupert Murdoch — that they have ‘unlimited funds and you’re getting your ass kicked by the Meidas boys.’” A Fox News spokesperson said the claim was “laughable” and “not remotely true.”

Their headlines can also suggest to the average viewer that Trump is on his way out:

“Trump LOSES ALL CONTROL as his REGIME NOSEDIVES”

“Trump QUICKLY CRUMBLES as SCANDAL EXPLODES”

“TRUMP has MASSIVE MELTDOWN AS PRESIDENCY CRASHES”

“WHOA! Dem Govs PUT NAIL in TRUMP’S COFFIN at STATE LEVEL”

“TRUMP has DISASTER SUNDAY with TERRIBLE NEWS for HIM”

Still, even if the content isn’t necessarily damaging Trump politically, it is definitely working for Meidas.

The network also operates based on best practices rewarded by YouTube: They publish videos every day consistently on an hourly schedule. On an average day, Meiselas and a group of contributors will churn out nearly 20 10-20 minute videos, almost all of which can top 100,000 views. Meiselas has the format down to a science: He scrolls the Twitter feeds of his contributors and researchers, picks a moment that he believes is particularly outrageous, and hits record. He leans on his background as a trial lawyer, preferring not to script his videos and largely conducting interviews and video segments with no notes. Instead, he calmly summarizes the news and unpacks why he finds it important.

When I visited his Los Angeles-area home earlier this month, Meiselas demonstrated the network’s efficiency. As I peppered him with questions over the course of 45 minutes, Meiselas conducted a 10-minute chat with the lead singer of the Dropkick Murphys about his recent comments about Trump and Musk. As soon as the interview wrapped, he chatted with his producer about the headline and some text for the video, and quickly posted. By the time I left his home, the video had already had thousands of views, well on its way to its current view count of nearly 500,000.

“The network is built on a strong foundation of principles and values that have never changed or wavered,” Meiselas told me. “This includes empathy, equality, fighting for workers, and standing up against bullies. I think we’ve helped pioneer a new paradigm for how news will be delivered and consumed in the digital-first age. Ultimately, in these very uncertain times, the authenticity, the rapid response and relentless consistency of content, and respect for our audience has resonated and helped make us the leader in the news.”

During Trump’s first term, many left-leaning audiences believed mainstream journalism could damage Trump’s presidency and standing with other Americans, if not help expose his wrongdoing and even criminality. Much coverage of former special prosecutor Robert Mueller’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election suggested, implicitly or overtly, that the results of the investigation could bring down Trump’s presidency. This, combined with the volume and remarkable nature of the stories that emerged as a result of Trump’s chaotic governing style, powered television ratings, web traffic, and subscriptions for many news organizations.

Democratic viewers aren’t putting their faith in the mainstream media to save them this time — perhaps because of changing media consumption habits, or disillusionment with the idea that accountability journalism will finally break the Trump fever, or frustration with the idea that the mainstream media hasn’t done enough to expose Trump.

Instead, they’re starting to turn to new alternative digital sources of news and information. Meidas epitomizes this model. Its videos satisfy two cravings on the left: a need to express anger at Trump, Musk, and the institutional GOP that supports them, and validation that what they are doing is stupid, harmful, and politically unpopular.

The criticism of Newsom’s podcast highlights the fissure within the Democratic Party and viewers over how to respond to Trump’s victory. Speaking to me last week, Newsom said he understands the desire to stay in the Democratic media bubble and simply fixate on content from voices liberals already agree with. He told me he watches Rachel Maddow’s show every day and will be sad after she stops broadcasting every night, as she has promised to do after the first hundred days of Trump’s presidency.

But in order for Democrats to regain political power, he said, they would need to leave the liberal media ecosystem and speak directly with conservatives.

“We need folks to wake up, get out of their bubbles,” he said. “We’ve got to get out of our safe spaces and get into where other people are living. And that’s really what this podcast is about.”